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During our first two weeks of class, we've been about confronting myths and stereotypes one the literacy classroom. We've looked at our own experiences as students. We've looked at writing instruction through the lens of history. And we've looked at how the general public and the media have understood the work of literacy instruction and teaching in general
Mike Rose's memoir of his own time as a student and teacher is the culmination of this part of the class. In Lives on the Boundary, Rose offers his own experiences as a way to ground a larger discussion of the project of literacy instruction I the United States. I am interested in hearing about what you take away from his experiences and argument. We are beginning this part of the discussion asynchronously. We'll wrap it up in a face-to-face discussion next week. For Today's Post: Please identify between 5 and 7 takeaways about teaching and learning from the first part of Rose. You can write it as a numbered list in your post, and provide some evidence from the text to support your claim that this is a significant takeaway from the text. As you post, consider the ways Rose's text challenges ideas we hold about what should be happening in a classroom, what counts as an accomplished, literate reader/writer, what the solutions to education crises should be. Think about some of the ways we've been talking about literacy instruction in class and see where Rose meets up or challenges these ideas. For Today's Response: Read your colleague's post and respond to at least TWO of them. Identify one of the following things to respond to in the texts: 1) where you agree with their takeaway. Please identify a different part of the text than the one the original poster uses to make your point. 2) where you have a different interpretation of Rose than the original poster did. Please identify the parts of the text that support your challenge.
23 Comments
Alexis Medeiros
6/3/2021 01:21:53 pm
It’s hard not to see the correlation between the two books, “Lives on the Boundary” by Mike Rose and “Write Beside Them: Risk, Voice, and Clarity in High School Writing” by Penny Kittle. In the beginning of “Lives on the Boundary”, Rose describes the fear of writing that many students, especially students, are learning English as a second language. He also goes on to describe his student named Laura who switched out of his remedial English class 5 times before actually taking it. She feared the goddess of Grammatica, the same goddess that many people fear. Writing is scary to some people, it's a fear that they bury deep within themselves and don’t write simply because they are afraid to make a mistake or they feel estranged from writing because they have been labeled as, “high-risk”, “slow-learner” or “remedial” as early on in the first grade. Rose draws on the same point that Penny Kittle draws on early in her book in his statement, “But if you can get close enough to their failure, you’ll find knowledge that the assignment didn’t tap, ineffective rules and strategies that have a logic of their own, you’ll find clues, as well, to the complex ties between literacy and culture, to the tremendous difficulties our children face as they attempt to find their places in the American educational system” (Rose 8). Kittle makes similarly the same claim that I believe Rose is trying to point out here. As educators we must write beside our students, we must put ourselves in their position instead of labeling them and making them believe they are the negative label their first grade teacher gave them. Mike Rose’s purpose of this book is to bring together his personal upbringing and his teaching profession as he sees the two seemingly blend together. Rose states his youth education has an effect on, “ the isolation of neighborhoods, information poverty, the limited means of protecting children from family disaster, the predominance of such disaster, the resilience of imagination, the intellectual curiosity and literate enticements that remain hidden from the schools, the feelings of scholastic inadequacy, the dislocations that come from crossing educational boundaries” (Rose 9). Rose believes that education outwardly affects the individual in their life circumstances.
Alexis Medeiros
6/3/2021 01:38:30 pm
feels as though he wasn’t taking care of his mother in the ways that he should have. As a freshman in college Rose was trying to figure himself out as many college students, the impact of the suicide allowed him to grow intellectually as he took this impact and started to write. Rose recalls how bad he was at writing by stating, “I continually misused words, and wrote fragments and run-on sentences and had trouble making my pronouns agree with whatever it was that preceded them” (Rose 53). It wasn’t until his professor Dr. Erlandson agreed to teach him that he improved and was able to listen when Father Albertson lectured. When someone takes the time to actually teach a student instead of persisting with the label they have been given, it's an amazing experience for both parties. Rose turned 21 and discovered his new intellect and a desire to write because now he finally had been taught to analyze. I feel as though Penny Kittler’s words were echoing as I read this chapter because Dr. Erlandson was not focusing on the bigger picture but instead focusing on how to get Rose there.
Gabriel El Khoury
6/3/2021 03:48:57 pm
Wholeheartedly agree with the final point you raised from the reading, Alexis. The labels ascribed to children during their schooldays stick with them. The quotation you used in your reading response reminded me of another that I highlighted in my copy of the book: "The churches these children attended told them they were made in the image of God. But I began to wonder what images they were creating for themselves as they came to know that their physical being was so vulnerable, that whatever beauty they bore could be dismissed by the culture or destroyed on the street" (101). What both this quote and the quote you mentioned capture is the vulnerability of children, the impacts of labelling them (even in passing), for a label can easily follow a student into adulthood (and potentially an entire lifetime). Great takeaway from this week's reading.
Aliyah Pires
6/3/2021 03:59:34 pm
I agree with your last statement about labels sticking with students. In my response I talk about the idea of the dean of a college describing students as, “The truly illiterate among us “(2). I feel like this description would stick with students, making them feel stupid and unable to learn. Like you said it leaves this idea that teachers will disregard the students because of this label that has been presented to them.
Elizabeth Cheesman
6/3/2021 01:51:44 pm
First, students, especially with low socioeconomic status, are not provided with encouragement and support in English as much as they would like to (11). This causes them to feel worthless and stupid. When students feel this way, they may not choose to write because they have been told by themselves and by society that they are illiterate. Second, Stereotypes play a huge role in examining student writing. One stereotype in college writing involves the lowest level English class. Just because the course is the “most basic” writing course, professors and students refer to the class as “bonehead; at risk; the truly illiterate among us” (2). Knowing this, students are hesitant to engage themselves. Third, It is really the teacher who impacts a students’ love of learning. Brother Bill was one example of a teacher, with little training, who pushed Rose’s self-esteem down to the point where he did not want to engage. Fourth, Teachers who have the most training and respect for students as people, like Mr. MacFarland who “teaches his heart out” (32) with connections that “hooked” (34) Rose back to reading. This teacher made him feel worthy of growth. Rose’s argument about teachers using effective language is remarkable because it can change a life. Fifth, if teachers help students find growth and interest instead of pushing them down with “no” and “awkward” comments (55), reading and writing prompts a healthy relationship for the power of “yet” in achieving a goal. Rose’s argument of teaching practices and attitude influencing whether students are literate or illiterate is compelling. I know that if I never met my teacher who fostered a love of English in me, I would not have been an English major. Rose teaches us that pedagogy forced on engagement and student potential rather than assessment helps students grow in English.
Aliyah Pires
6/3/2021 03:54:40 pm
I agree with you saying that stereotypes play a huge role in examining students writing. I wrote about this from a different perspective in my post but I feel like they both correlate well. I stated how when Mike was working with kids in poverty, he was shocked at how well the students wrote. He writes, “I'm not sure exactly what I expected, but most of what I read was better than I thought it would be.” (96). At first, like many other teachers, he was doubtful about what these children could produce but was soon having a change of mind after examining their work. Breaking down these stereotypes will help many student in the long run become successful.
Alexis Medeiros
6/3/2021 03:55:29 pm
Elizabeth, I really love your approach to this reading journal. It's so true that low Socioeconomic status plays a huge part in education and that seems evident throughout the first five chapters. It's sad that economics plays a part in education because it shouldn't matter if you grow up poor instead it should matter that you are trying. We strive for equal opportunities yet often times we miss the mark. I think Rose's personal connection is crucial because he is able to relate to the students that he teaches because he has been in their same shoes once before. Rose's argument is great because if a teacher isn't passionate and doesn't first teach themselves then they will not be able to teach their students.
Gabriel El Khoury
6/3/2021 04:05:50 pm
Great set of takeaways from this week's reading, Elizabeth. Like you, I found the part about Mr. MacFarland particularly inspiring, and it shows how someone who "teaches his heart out" (32) is capable of sowing a seed of growth in a student. I am thinking specifically now about how Rose as a teacher takes an active role in igniting a spark in Harold, which was often "no more than a flicker" (126). Sometimes all it takes to motivate a student is a teacher willing to give them an extra push. One more point of agreement: pedagogy with an emphasis on potential is far preferable to pedagogy that seeks to punish.
Emma Healy
6/3/2021 05:17:23 pm
Elizabeth, your second takeaway really resonated with me as I definitely agree that stereotypes play a huge role in a student's life and their writing, Mike Rose discussed when he transferred to private school, he was placed in the "vocational" level. He described this as being the bottom level and that everyone knew exactly what that meant. He described how he didn't have teachers who motivated him because they didn't see him capable of academic success based on the corner he was pushed into as a "vocational' level student. He was embarrassed of this label and his love for reading diminished. This type of obvious leveling of students' abilities can be detrimental to their self confidence and writing like you pointed out.
Sarah Egan
6/3/2021 03:22:58 pm
The Teacher Corps that Rose was involved in was located in El Monte. A little boy told him that he “used to be in the dumb math group” (91). After a year, Rose was told that he should start teaching instead of observing, but he was too afraid. He was told by a fellow teacher that a lot will make these children happy because they really don’t have that much in their lives. A lot of the children that were taught by the Teacher Corps later on became educators as well. As a future teacher, I think it is special Rose understands the difficulties that these children face because he was once thought to be illiterate as well. It is so important to be able to connect with your students and empathize with them. On the first day of teaching, the students were quiet and nervous until Rose asked them to tell the class about themselves. After this, the students were coming up to him on the playground because they felt more comfortable around him. Teachers also need to understand that what is going on outside of school has an effect on learning. Rose also comes to realize that these children are not on the spectrum or illiterate, they are just uninspired and not confident in themselves. Confidence is necessary in order to thrive academically. Children need to see and believe that their hard work in school is paying off. At one point in the story, Rose also realizes that the curriculum that the children are required to learn is very structured. He claimed that it was, “not alive, not communitive at all” (110). They were directed strictly towards grammatical analysis. From this class we have explored how studying grammar shows little benefit towards one’s academic success. Direct instruction with grammar will not make a student a better writer. It takes time for improvement, and that can be done by practicing writing.
Alexis Medeiros
6/3/2021 04:01:11 pm
Sarah, the point that you made is one that I made myself. Students often prize themselves in the academic achievements rather than life skills achievements because that it was our educational system has taught them to do. Children need to see that their academic achievements allow them to achieve real success in the real world. Direct instruction doesn't make a better student, a student can recieve direct instruction yet gain nothing out of it. As the old saying goes, "practice makes perfect" and Rose makes that point clear throughout our class reading.
Emma Healy
6/3/2021 05:28:01 pm
Sarah, I completely agree that having confidence is a major factor for students to have success in the classroom. Students not only need to have confidence in themselves, but in their educators as well. Rose added that before his teacher, Jack MacFarland, he was completely unmotivated and his teachers didn't seem to have much hope for him. His confidence was low because his teacher's reciprocated those same emotions to him. Until teachers and professors at Loyola and at UCLA started to show confidence in Rose's work, he wasn't performing well academically. It really is heavily reliant on the educators to supply confidence in these students because children are so aware when they aren't being acknowledged. Like you pointed out, students want their work to be highlighted and that their hard work will benefit their futures. Rose did a wonderful job emphasizing the role educators have on students and their self confidence.
Gabriel El Khoury
6/3/2021 03:37:07 pm
In the first five chapters of Mike Rose’s Lives on the Boundary (1989), much of Mike’s early life, his budding love of language (and his frustrations with it), as well as his initial impressions of the American education system, is shared with the reader. Mike personally guides the reader through his firsthand experiences with the shortcomings and outright failings of the education system, sharing charming anecdotal experiences which help to illustrate his growing sense of discontent with the ways in which students are taught. Mike’s disenchantment with the education system helps him to better understand and to connect with “the truly illiterate among us” (3), the remedial learners who easily fall behind their far more successful classmates. Rose’s firsthand experience with the shortcomings of education certainly lend credence to his book’s central thesis: that students are being left behind by the American education system. What I found particularly striking about Rose’s Lives on the Boundary was his honest and authentic voice, his remarkable story, and his engaging, lively writing style. The chapter “Entering the Conversation” in particular, a chapter which relates Rose’s learning to use words correctly and intelligently, to avoid using hackneyed expressions and “awkward metaphors” (54) in scholarly writing, is highly relatable, and it is a journey all writers must make. One quote that stood out to me (among many others): “Bullshit, of course, is everything you—and the others—fear is beyond you: books, essays, tests, academic scrambling, complexity, scientific reasoning, philosophical inquiry” (29). Knowing firsthand the pitfalls of the American education system, and having come from an impoverished background himself not too dissimilar from “the truly illiterate among us” (3), Rose is most certainly qualified to address the lackluster state of education and to point to where this system fails students.
David Golden
6/3/2021 06:59:51 pm
Gabriel your choice to include the socioeconomic aspect of education was incredibly insightful. Many of those students who fall under those conditions feel left out of the schooling system. Educators and students can feel overwhelmed by the workload. The students are left with fewer opportunities and tend to feel like there is no escape. With these feelings, they tend to see no escape from these conditions and grow to accept them. Rose's writings layout the groundwork for how to exactly combat these issues. It was an incredibly insightful read. I am glad you brought the topic up as well Gabriel because it is an important issue.
Aliyah Pires
6/3/2021 03:50:21 pm
One aspect of learning that is prevalent in the reading had to do with students' confidence. When students are told/know that they are in a lower-level course, such as UCLA's most basic writing course it is hard for them to have confidence in themselves. This dean stated, “The truly illiterate among us “(2) was how these students were to be described. However, that is not true. Even though they were seen to be illiterate they were smart enough to make connections to Greek words and make observations about what they were learning. Another aspect of learning is brought up by, “The fact is that the literacy crisis has been with us for some time that our schools have always been populated with students who don't meet some academic standard” (7), showing that teachers need to understand this fact. Learning comes in different ways, and we must keep in mind that this difficulty will always occur. Mike Rose also speaks on the idea that teaching is like a romance. Teachers need to make their students enthused about writing. Like he states, “My first enthusiasm about writing came because I wanted a teacher to like me” (102). The teacher student relationship is so important to a student's education that many people overlook. Teachers also need to understand the background of their students. As stated, “The current spate of reports on the schools criticized parents for not involving themselves in the education of children” (24). As Mike Rose goes on to say, how do they expect parents to help if they barely speak English, work many hours to support their child and many other aspects of life that go on in the student household. And finally, along with that point teachers need to not have stereotypes about kids in poverty, saying that they are illiterate or not smart. When Mike was working with these kids, he was shocked at how well the students wrote. He writes, “I'm not sure exactly what I expected, but most of what I read was better than I thought it would be.” (96). All these aspects of teaching and learning are important and should be discussed throughout the American education system.
Elizabeth Cheesman
6/3/2021 05:48:25 pm
Aliyah, you discussed similar aspects that I did. You mentioned the important role of teachers in helping students grow. I agree that the teacher student relationship is vital for reading and writing development. Rose said that he, just like any student, wants teachers to like him but he also said, "their knowledge grew in me in ways that led me back out to the world” (58). Teachers can help students find the light in hard times. I often wonder if I would still be the person I am if I did not have the teachers who helped me find my identity.
Emma Healy
6/3/2021 05:06:24 pm
Mike Rose’s, Lives on the Boundary discusses the challenges “labeled” students face in the classroom. An initial takeaway is that a lot of students who present negative self-talk feel like they are in way over their heads academically, and can’t handle the pressure of failing, which is inevitable. He tells the story of a student, Laura, who dropped his course four times in the fear of being a bad writer. Secondly, Rose addressed the notion that, at the time, “good schooling” only referred to private/Catholic schooling, so his parents sent him to Our Lady of Mercy. Parents today are still willing to spend and send their children to these private schools because there is this notion that they will receive better education and have a better chance of getting into college. Another takeaway discussed is that despite having horrible, uninterested teachers, Rose goes on to say how one teacher can reignite a love for reading that was once lost. Jack MacFarland, one of his teachers, even helped Rose get into Loyola College, which was a predominately white school for the middle and upper class. Rose’s first year at Loyola was intimidating, even feeling “stupid” at times, and needed help along the way. He would look at an assignment and utter it was “hopeless.” Although his love for schooling had been reignited, Rose began to compare himself to other writers and felt as though he hadn’t accomplished enough. This feeling of comparison is a fourth point made by Rose. Students can be their own worst enemy but finding that balance between pushing yourself to your best potential and defeating yourself is what Rose accomplishes in his book. Later on, he expresses resigning from his fellowship, leaving UCLA all together, and getting involved with the Teacher’s Corps as an intern. There he met a reading specialist, Rosalie Naumann, who arranged Rose to meet with the school’s poorest readers weekly. During this time, he found lots of errors in the curriculum and became deeply invested in a student named Harold. Rose emphasized the role of unequal opportunities for students who are deemed poor students too early on, like Harold. This was the fifth takeaway I found in Mike Rose’s Lives on the Boundary regarding the stereotype put on students at an extremely young age. To sum up, Mike Rose stresses the importance of getting rid of the many stigmas that poor students are “hopeless” and pushed into a corner they cannot escape. Rose invites the idea that educators can help students no longer feel they are bad writers or incapable of going to a university like UCLA, as he once felt. I can definitely say that I wouldn't be nearly as confident in my writing, or an English major at that, if I didn't have teachers and professors who sparked it for me. Where students live, their race, or financial circumstances add to the unequal opportunities students face in the United States which still holds truth today.
Elizabeth Cheesman
6/3/2021 06:06:24 pm
Emma, I love that you decided to focus your response on student confidence. Rose makes a compelling argument that students are consumed with stereotypes and fixed mindsets. I agree with Rose that we need to be more forward in defining what "good schooling" truly means. I also agree that students need hope to accomplish goals and that there is no progress from completing assessments. After reading Rose' book we know that students who are not given positive responses to literature that they "crumple the paper and begin daydreaming to ease the frustration" (31). This class is helpful in understanding this.
David Golden
6/3/2021 06:51:30 pm
I like that you focused on the confidence aspect of the reading. Students need to feel like they are more than capable at reading and writing. Rose makes a good point in that educators need to encourage these positive behaviors and build this confidence in our students. If we help our students realize their potential then there is no limit to how great they can become. His reading was very insightful on the key aspects on how to obtain confidence.
David Golden
6/3/2021 06:45:24 pm
One of the aspects of the writing assignment that stuck out to me was the fact that student's confidence played a key role in their performance. Students need to feel like they can accomplish the writing assignments well. In the reading, it was described that the children feel like they are in over their heads and they can not amount to anything. They are afraid of being "labeled" as incompetent and incapable. These stereotypes tend to make students feel more reluctant in their writing. That ties into the other issue of students who fall into low socioeconomic statuses. They are left with fewer opportunities and tend to feel isolated. At the end of the day, however, it all comes down to the educator. It is the teacher who has the greatest impact on students writing development. One example from the reading was Rose. She had a low drive to write. A teacher pushed her into believing herself and she eventually got Rose to read and write more. If teachers push their students into growing as readers and writers then their students can accomplish great things. Schools will always need passionate teachers who are willing to push their students. Without passion and drive, there is no progress.
LT
6/8/2021 09:34:26 am
1. We profoundly misunderstand what “remedial” means—or what a deficit looks like. This is true about the general public. This is true about the US historically. This is true for many of us who teach in classrooms.
LT
6/8/2021 09:37:57 am
One last thing, and this is really about the last parts of the text where he takes us through his one-on-one working with students where he essentially "lays bear the mechanism" of the test for students. I think that one way to think about Rose's argument is to consider that 10) we profoundly misunderstand the entire place and role of error in education. Error is not evidence of lack of effort or lack of intelligence. Error is the sight of learning. And, if we recognize that, as Alexis talked about in her post above, we can support our students as learners--not as consumers--in our classrooms. But we must create curricula that allows for error in the classroom. And this is the tough part.
Mark Jackson
7/12/2021 01:09:14 am
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