WEEK FIVE: Assessment on the sentence level

6/22/2020

Here is a story from my earliest years of teaching this course. Students had just read what you had read, Constance Weaver (not the Charity-Hudley Malinson because it hadn't been published yet). I gave students a a grammar test, one that I am including here. You don't have to take it, but you can. and I will give you the answers. Spoiler: people were pretty upset about how they scored. They assumed, as perhaps you did, that the rest of the class would be about how they would learn to teach grammar. But, as you must also realize, that is not what I was going to do. And one student, in exasperation, exclaimed, then what are we supposed to teach?

Of course, in an ELA classroom, you are teaching a great many things and, most of all you are helping introduce student to the literate world and all that that can make possible for them. To be a good writer, you have to have an idea. You nave to have an argument (no matter what you are writing). You have to have evidence. You have to have organization. And, also, you have to have nice sentences. But that is where it gets tricky. Because a "nice" sentence in one setting is not appropriate in others. How we give students feedback on their sentence level issues is important and. complicated because how we write is a version of how we talk and how we talk is very, very personal. It's one of the places where we can most hurt or help our students.

Finally, here is a simple truth: new teachers tend to focus on correctness more than meaning in student writing--on grading for correctness instead on the myriad things that make a piece of writing a good piece of writing.

WHAT TO POST: In the other post, I asked you to comment on this essay on a global level. For this final discussion board post of our time together, I'm asking you to think holistically about how you would help this student as a writer of sentences (I've repeated the essay as a file here). Consider what you might say to her directly, and think about what you might do in class to support this writer as well as the whole class of writers. If it helps you to quote specific sentences, but don't feel like you have to. Again, as I said in the last post, don't feel like you've got to do this right. Work together to hash out ideas for helping this student and helping each other learn how to do this.

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17 Comments

Lindsay Vo

6/23/2020 08:02:23 am

Before I get into correcting this paper, I want to say that Ayla seems to have a good command of the English language. As a tutor for Second Language Services, I see this type of work all the time. I truly believe that ESL students are one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. However, like all of us, there's some mistakes that were made. Ayla's story is truly inspiring: I could never imagine having a baby at sixteen years old, and I applaud everyone who has. Being a mother isn't easy, and all of the songs she mentioned clearly have a special place in her heart. Some things she could work on for her next draft is capitalization skills, the use of question marks, and the order in which she words things. For example, she didn't capitalize all of the words in her title, and she didn't capitalize the word "I" in a lot of places. Then, she didn't put question marks where they should be, and she ordered the words in a particular way. For example, she said, "I one day was planning a sweet sixteen for my best friend." While this isn't technically incorrect, it would flow better if she wrote "One day I was planning a sweet sixteen for my best friend." Overall, I think she is a great writer, and there's very little that needs to be fixed. I would address these issues in my classroom by encouraging my students to write more: the more they write, the better writers they become.

Maddie Butkus

6/23/2020 03:36:09 pm

Hey Lindsay!

You make some excellent points here about Ayla’s writing, some of which we both had mentioned. It seems as if capitalization is definitely something that she needs to work on and I am really glad you pointed out question marks as well. Punctuation is crucial when writing and there were definitely times when Ayla needed to add questions marks and even commas within her writing. While her essay is very well thought out, I would also mention to both her and a class of writers to always reread your work to check for any immediate visual errors. Lastly, the point that you made at the end of your writing, “the more they write, the better writers they become,” is spot on! This is an aspect we have learned in depth about this semester and it couldn’t be more true!

Paige Couture

6/23/2020 02:39:11 pm

Going off what Lindsay stated, it sounds like English is not Ayla’s first language. Which is more than OK. I applaud her for writing something so personal to share with others. The first thing I have noticed was that Ayla did not capitalize I’s. In just one sentence, I could explain the grammar mistakes that she has made throughout the paper. An example of this is: “Every time I’d hear it I’d picture my daughter saying that to me in just a few years, which made me more happy.” Ayla did not put a space between: “every time”. There also should be a comma after the word “it”. Most of the paragraphs did not contain commas. In almost every sentence, she uses the word “I”. While we know that the author is talking about her own experience, using “I” constantly is not necessary. This may become better when the student explores English more. The titles of the songs should have quotation marks around them. The word “By” when introducing the songs, should not be capitalized. If the names of the songs were not in bold, Ayla could have written them within the paragraphs and started off with the thesis in the beginning. Here, is an example: “The song, “All of Me” by John Legend was playing at my baby shower. It was filled with lots of people, love and gifts that turned out to be one of the best days of my life…” When Ayla goes into a new song: “Mommy Sing To Me” by Jhene Aiko, there should be another space to separate the bold lettering from the previous paragraph. She did remember to indent the beginnings of her paragraphs, which is good. The sentence structure needs improvement, which is okay since English is not this person’s first language. An example of this would be: “Excites me for the moment that she’d be able to sing back to me.” The words: “be able to” is not needed. It should say: “The moment I witness my daughter singing, will make me happy.” Or something similar. Since this is an essay, the words “I’d” or “I’ve” should be written out: I did or I have. Ayla does have a good idea of structure, though: “Another reason to why this song reminds me of my daughter is because this song was made by Jhene and her daughter.” That is a full complete sentence. She goes on to explain why the song reminds her of her daughter. Ayla did a good job with the conclusion and connecting it to the rest of the essay, stating the special moments she shared while pregnant. This essay is acceptable. The fact that Ayla chose a personal story, impacted the effort to write in clear English. This is just nit-picking advice. I do think this essay is a great example to show students in the classroom. Providing this example to other students, will be a good model of culture acceptance.

6/23/2020 03:25:49 pm

I believe that Ayla here has a great basic structure for how a paper should look like and her English skills seem to be pretty well-known. As far as her story goes, I give her a lot of credit for how strong she is and I would make a note to tell that to her. The songs she chose for her essay are beautiful and she ties them in very well throughout her writing. I looked over her reflection at the end of the essay and noticed that one of her concerns was whether or not her essay was organized or not. This is one specific aspect that I would definitely want to work on within my classroom. While Ayla, I believe, did a great job with her organization within her essay, since each song she chose follows some of type of chronological order, I think the concept of organization as a whole holds great importance within any type of writing so it should be expressively taught within any classroom. Additionally, the two biggest things I would want to work on with Ayla and therefore a class of writers is sentence structure and avoiding repetition. I noticed that within many sentences Ayla struggled with capitalization and the wording within her sentences. It was almost as if the sentences needed to be rephrased in order to make exact sense of what she was trying to say. For example, the sentence she wrote, “I hope these songs stay in my life forever which it actually will,” definitely needs to be rephrased in order to fully make sense of what she is trying to state here. She could potentially write instead, “I know these songs are going to stay in my life forever due to the lasting impact that have had already in my life,” or something along those lines. It is also with these sentences that I noticed a lot of repetition whether that be through context or word choice. I would like to try to expand her vocabulary in order to switch up word choice as well as work on repetition in writing as a whole. These are the three main aspects I would like to work on not only with Ayla but also with a class of writers in order to try to help them improve in their writing down the road.

6/24/2020 03:55:11 pm

Hi Maddie,

I would also make a note about how strong she is, especially for choosing something so personal to write about for an essay. If this were to be used as an example for students, I am sure more than one person would look up to her as a role model. I knew all the songs she’s chosen, while I was reading, I was thinking of the song in my head to match what she was going through in that particular scene. I do think organization is something she should work on, which I had forgotten to write about in my post. It’s something that is not hard to fix. There were a few parts where I was confused because she would skip into another scene, without letting us know ahead of time. Maybe a few suggestions is what she needs. She could start off with: “In the song, “Halo” by Beyonce, I have experienced…” I have noticed repetition as well, including the numerous times the word “I” is used. You mentioned that you would want to work with Ayla, to improve her English. What steps would you take to help reach that goal? Also, what goal would you have for her?

You did a good job with your post.

Ali Nolan

6/23/2020 06:19:23 pm

Ayla has clearly put her heart into this writing. If I were to one on one address her about grammar, sentence structure and word choice regarding it, I would tread lightly. As I read through the essay I thought of a few things I could do in front of a whole class. For one, making powerpoints that have grammatical errors can prompt students to call out those errors. By doing this, we can refresh those ideas and rules as a whole class instead of with one person at a time. I think, in this case, it’s more of a repetitive thing. The more opportunities we give students to correct grammar, the better. Some areas where I think Ayla needs more practice include; word choice, sentence structure and capitalization. I can understand that English is not her first language, and think she did a really good job with all things considered! I agree that this is an area that can make or break students. I think another way to help address not just her, but a whole class, is to have ample opportunities to write. Warm ups at the beginning of classes, tickets to leave, and opportunities to free-write. If I were to have a private conversation with Ayla on her work, I’d offer her extra resources or handouts to help her practice the three areas I addressed earlier. I’d also make sure to go over everything she did right. She wrote descriptively, and related every song to personal experiences. So, there is a piece of her with this essay. I think it’s important to note that and make sure to respect the work.

Brianna Walsh

6/23/2020 06:50:16 pm

After reading Ayla’s story I think that she is very strong young woman and feel like she vividly captured each of the moments she described when she found out she was pregnant and how her feelings evolved from fear to excitement. It is a good essay because it is something that is meaningful to her and although there were a few spelling errors, she explained how each song captured a specific moment in her life. Ayla was able to explain what each song meant to her and how it tied into her journey of having a child at 16. I could only imagine how tough it may have been for her and I know it could not have been easy. It is clear that each of these songs symbolized a moment in her life that bring out multiple emotions of fear, excitement, and nervousness. There are only minor errors in this essay which are some spelling errors and capitalization errors. She forgot to capitalize the word “I” a couple of times in her paper. There were some sentences in the essay that could have been worded better. It seemed like a lot of her struggles had to do with phrasing sentences to get the point across and just capitalization errors. An example is of a sentence that could have been phrased better is when she was talking about hearing a song and said, “As soon as I hear this I turn out to be positive and think of all the bright moments I'll share with my daughter.” She could have changed the wording and said something like, “Whenever I hear the song “Promise,” I think positively about all the bright moments I will share with my daughter.” In general, there is not much I would say to critique it other than to fix the little spelling errors and that some of the sentences could be phrased a little better. I feel like her essay had good structure and that her paragraphs tied in together well to describe a different moment during her journey as a young mom. I think that she had really good content in her writing and it was something really meaningful. Overall, I was really moved by her essay and think that she is a good writer.

Lydia Theriault

6/24/2020 06:18:22 am

Hi Bri!

I liked the quotes you chose in your response. If I had a conversation with Ayla alone, I would say very similar things to what you are saying too. It's really hard to write and write well! I can't imagine someone trying to write in a language that was not their first or primary language. I speak two languages, where English is my primary language and I struggle sometimes to get the right ideas or sentiment across. Writing takes up your entire brain, it's exhausting and is never perfect. Sometimes I wonder why I keep doing it. But then I remember that it is so satisfying and the challenge is worth the rewards! That is something I wish for a student like Ayla, and if she is properly guided through her learning and schooling career, I feel she can go very far. I feel everyone has something to say or a story to tell, they wish they could tell it but are unsure how. As I've stated, writing is really hard, and language is really hard. Teachers should never come from a high and mighty place, but remember that they were at the same point their students were in at one point or another. I would much rather learn from a kind and empathetic teacher than any other.

6/24/2020 06:04:46 am

Like most of my classmates, I agree with the errors Ayla made. We can focus on them (seeing how this is a post about sentences) but the errors don't take away from the overall feeling or point of the essay. Since my classmates did such a great job picking out the exact sentences with mistakes I won't quote them here. They mainly were capitalization mistakes, sentence structure, and punctuation. I wouldn't address her essay specifically in front of the class because that would be extremely insensitive to do considering she is still learning and as others have mentioned, English most likely was not her first language. That can be very off-putting and discouraging for someone like Ayla because if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of her essay, she states opinions of her writing, so she is cognizant of her shortcomings. I would address these things with the class, only if the majority of the class as struggling with grammar and sentence structure. If it was just Ayla, I would ask her to come see me after class or whenever.

The great things that she did in her essay was capture the beauty of her experience of having a baby. She could have written about how hard it was or the struggles she went through, but she chose to focus on the positive side of having a baby at 16, and that in itself gave her a bit of an edge. The songs she chose were popular enough to where people can visualize or hear the songs in their heads as they read along. She also tied in the events, such as the cake cutting or the tender moments with her smiling daughter vey well. I also feel like a lot of her personality was shown through the style she wrote in, almost like it was conversational. I think a student like Ayla could go very far with her writing if supported and guided in the right way, she has much potential!

6/24/2020 07:21:12 am

Hi Lydia!
I do think that you are right, and the errors don’t takeaway from anything because it is a very meaningful essay. I feel like this essay allows us to go through the emotions she felt and take us on her journey. I did see a lot of capitalization mistakes, sentence structure, and punctuation errors, but I think she was able to fully capture the main idea. Ayla was able to relate the moments she went through during her pregnancy to each of the songs. I feel like she clearly demonstrated why each of those songs were meaningful to her. I also do agree that addressing an essay in front of a class would be insensitive and feel like that would be something that you would ask her to see you later about. For someone who is learning English, she is a beautiful writer and has a lot of potential. I do love how she focused on the positives of having a baby at a young age and feel like she vividly described her emotions of fear, happiness, and nervousness. She does show a lot of her personality through their writing and is able to do it in a clear way.

Hannah Dziadyk

6/24/2020 10:52:37 am

Like what my classmates posted above about her grammatical errors that Ayla made I agree with what Lydia said that the errors do not take away from overall main points and feelings of the essay. The sentences are struture are not ideal but when I read this I can understand the message that Ayla is sending when talking about the journey of her first baby. We can probably sit here pick out all of the wrong and incorrect grammatical errors in her essay or we could look and read and see the good in the essay. Remeber that not all essay's are going to be perfect, but at the ends of the day did the writer send an undertsanding and clear message to the audience that we can read and understand and feeling the emotion that the writer put into this work. A lot of readers critize the bad things in others writing or the incorrect grammatical mistakes made, but sometimes we should hype up the positive outcomes of writings and this piece has beauty and excitement all over it. Something as important as the birth of your child is something beautiful to witness and this piece was written honestly and giving future moms a good incite on what it is like. A persons personality is often shown throught there writing and you can definetly see the beauty and the tender moments in life by this piece. She put her words and made vivid images that captured her emotions and moments in her life that she experienced while birthing her daughter and the moments and special experiences she felt during that time. Ayla seems like a potentiall good young writer if she has the correct guidence in the right direction.

Megan

6/24/2020 05:49:58 pm

I agree with you that there's no reason to focus specifically on the bad of an essay. Positive reinforcement does so much more for writers than negative! I do believe it's still important to bring up where the essay had mistakes no matter how small just to help the writer learn from their mistakes, no matter how small they may be. It's important to get a good feel for what the content of a piece of writing should look like first, then fine tune it after. This essay was great! It threw you right into her experience. I don't think everything she did right should be disregarded because she didn't capitalize I sometimes, but I also don't think mistakes like that should be completely ignored. Nip small things in the bud without making it a point of insecurity for the writer!

6/24/2020 05:46:28 pm

I personally really enjoyed reading this essay. My aunt had my cousin when she was 15 and has never been shy about admitting how hard it was, but they're both doing amazing. We just celebrated my cousin's 31st birthday last week. This story felt just as personal as when I talk to my aunt about her struggles being a single teen mom. A per peeve of mine was the grammatical errors, though. It doesn't make the essay more difficult to read, but I would still point them out just so she knew what was wrong exactly and could fix them better next time. The prompt was followed very well and it was a genuinely good read. The introduction was a nice way to bring readers immediately into the story - it didn't have unnecessary background information and didn't drag on for too long. The inclusion of the story behind the John Legend song made it feel just that much more personal and I enjoyed it. It felt like a truly, wholly feel good story with good songs and a nice peek into one of the happiest times of someone's life. In class I would try to actively ensure that students felt comfortable enough to put this level of heart into their writing and paid attention to small errors like capitalization, but don't overly stress out about it. At the end of the day, the story itself is the important thing. I could care less about "I" being consistently capitalized, so long as the writer does genuinely understand what is being asked of them and does their best to 1. complete the assignment as directed and 2. make it a fun, personal, easy, GOOD read. I think that Ayla accomplished that just fine.

alexa parham

6/27/2020 02:20:49 pm

Hi Megan!

I wanted to reply to you, because I also have a cousin with a similar situation. My cousin started dating a girl (my cousin now), and when they started dating for a while, we met her and her 2 year old. When she was 21 (I believe) she had her baby with her boyfriend, but they did not stay together. Then later ended up marrying my cousin. She mentioned to me the other day, how crazy it was that she was my age when she had my cousin. Now, understanding what this age is like, and imagining having a baby right now would be crazy for me so I can only imagine how she felt or how your aunt felt or how Ayla felt, especially at an even younger age. But, I think it is so brave and amazing at the same time. So, again, expressing these feelings onto paper alone can not be easy.
Therefore, I agree with what you put as expectations at the end. As long as they complete the assignment and make it personal (depending on the prompt) along with a good read with of course effort put into it, then I would not see why that would ever be unacceptable. I think she did a good job.

Fiona Bell

6/25/2020 08:59:05 am

I agree with practically everybody's viewpoints on Ayla's piece. I think she did a really beautiful job: she was open and honest and raw with her feelings and her outlooks on her situation. In her reflection she said she was worried that her writing didn't make sense and that it was all over the place. I think it absolutely made sense and she, like she said, did an "amazing job with connecting the songs" to her life story. However, there was some awkward wording and grammatical mistakes throughout her paper (these are all easy fixes though). She also brought up that she was concerned her ideas were all over the place- I partially agree with this but it wasn't so disorganized that her message got lost in the process. Her introduction was well written, as well as her explanations for the lyrics, and I think the lyrics she chose supported her main idea very well. I thoroughly enjoyed reading this piece and, with the few errors she made put aside, I think she 100% accomplished what she set out to do/what was required of her.

6/27/2020 02:03:05 pm

After reading Ayla's paper, I did notice some issues in punctuation and grammar, capitalization, sentence structure, among a few other things, but that is not what stuck out to me when reading through this...

Ayla's writing shifts at one point, and I think it says SO much about her and her writing. Her introduction was worded funky and did not flow very well (which by the way - my introductions and conclusions as an early writer were my weaknesses and honestly still are). BUT, it is so important to see how her tone and flow of words changes after the introduction. When she starts her story, about finding out she is pregnant, along with her journey including songs that she related to and comforted her, HER WRITING CHANGES. Her writing shifts and she begins to truly write with passion. This story means a lot to her, and it comes through within her writing. Yes, it is not perfect. but you can see that this personal and emotional story that she puts passion in writing about COMES THROUGH within her writing.

Writing is a working progress, but I believe if you are passionate about what you want to write on paper... it will shine through.

my wriitng got cut off^

6/27/2020 02:08:05 pm

I think Ayla is so brave for telling her story and sharing it with her teacher. I think she opened her heart within this writing, and tried her best. I remember being the freshman in English 101, I was writing about things I was also passionate about, and at the time I tried my best. At the time, THAT was my best work. When you begin, or are still working on writing, you are doing the best you can at that time. When I read old essays, at the time I thought were so good, I now see so many issues with them or mistakes or things I would change and I wonder why I got that A. BUT, my professors saw the writing level I was at, and new that I was still learning. I think that is important to see as a teacher. If you were to write the same essay three different times, starting over each time, you would always get a different essay. Writing is unique and it is ALWAYS a learning process... no matter what level you are at.

WEEK FIVE: Assessment on the sentence level

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Summer 2020 ENGL 301

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